All rights belong to their respective owners. Digitally remastered and AI Full HD 1080 Upscaled. R.I.P. Sam, (1953–1992)
Tag: Bon Jovi
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Sam Kinison Last Stand
By Jane Wollman Rusoff
With additional reporting by A.J.S. Rayl and Jon Weiderhorn
Originally printed in Entertainment Weekly, No. 122
Friday, June 12, 1992“That’s when you know you’re pretty f—ed up, when it makes sense to fall asleep… I was driving between Needles and Barstow… It’s about 120 miles of desert… It’s four in the morning, man… Hey, this is a pretty good time to go to sleep … (SCREAMS HYSTERICALLY) So I totaled this f—in’ car out, man!… I f—in’ totaled it! And it made SENSE at the time!…” — FROM THE “SAM KINISON FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT HOUR,” APRIL 4, 1991
IRONY OF IRONIES: On April 10, 1992, almost a year after delivering that routine on HBO, Sam Kinison was killed in a head-on collision on that same stretch of arid desert road between Needles and Barstow, Calif., the same haunted section of U.S. Highway 95 that opens Hunter S. Thompson’s Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. A 5’8″, 275-pounder whose appetites matched his bulk, a kamikaze comic known for his piercing screams and full-bellow takes on sex, religion, and drugs, Kinison was heading for a stand-up gig in Laughlin, Nev., five days after marrying his third wife, Malika Souiri, 27. Eleven miles north of Needles, a pickup driven by an allegedly beer-drinking 17-year-old smashed into Kinison’s Pontiac, leaving Souiri unconscious and the 38-year old comedian dead.
The greatest irony of all: Everyone thought he’d die sooner. With his massive addiction to alcohol and drugs, Kinison had been pegged by his friends and even by himself for a John Belushi-style demise. He once joked with friends that he’s probably be found dead one day “with a couple of 16-year-old girls in a cheap motel with an ounce of blow and a scissors sticking out of my back.” That he should die just when he seemed to be chasing the demons from his life – not exactly clean and sober, according to the autopsy report, but closer than he’d come in years – simply made no sense. And still doesn’t. In the weeks since he died, Kinison’s friends and family have tried to come to some understanding of his death and life, especially of those last bound-for-hell years.
Analyzing Kinison, once a troubled, rebellious child and later a holy-rolling preacher, they see a study in light-and-dark contrasts. He was “a shy little huggy bear,” says guitarist Joe Walsh, and also a man who “loved turmoil – that’s what made him tick,” says comic Allan Stephan, who often toured with Kinison. He had reportedly led a Black Mass or two in his time, yet “Jesus was always near his heart,” according to former girlfriend (and Jim Bakker nemesis) Jessica Hahn. He compulsively beat up men and women, yet was so respectfully devoted to his mother, Marie, that their relationship “was almost Elvis-like,” according to Sam’s brother, Bill.
All of us are creatures of complexity, but in Kinison the contradictions ran to wild extremes. “Most people would go to the edge,” says his friend Robin Williams. “Sam would jump over it.”
This is the trajectory of his fall.
THE EARLY PART of his story is well known. Born in Peoria, Ill., the third son of four boys in a family of poor preachers, he was bred into anger – whether from his upbringing in poverty, to the devil, no one was ever able to determine fully. He worked as a Pentecostal evangelist from ages 18 to 25 but eventually found his true calling in comedy. Starting at a club in Houston and gravitating to the Los Angeles laugh circuit in 1981, Kinison got his break in 1985, when Rodney Dangerfield put him on his young Comedians HBO special and gave Kinison what he would later call “the six minutes that changed my life.”
By 1987 Kinison had sold 100,000 copies of his album Louder Than Hell, hosted Saturday Night Live, appeared in Dangerfield’s movie Back to School, befriended the likes of Jon Bon Jovi, Ted Nugent, and Howard Stern, and was pulling in as much as $50,000 per concert gig. His comedy style was unlike anything ever heard – or, in his case, unlike anything ever heard outside of a psych ward: Addressing himself to starving Ethiopians, he roared: This is sand. Nothing grows here. Know what it’s gonna be like in a hundred years? It’s gonna be sand! you live in a f–ing desert! We have deserts in America – we just don’t live in them! Why don’t you move to where the food is?
But at the same time Kinison was telling friends that he was having major problems dealing with success. “He didn’t know who to trust,” says Walsh. “All of a sudden everybody wanted to be his friend. One time he called, depressed and crying. He said, ‘Am I blowing it?’ Sam never quite believed in himself, and it tore him up.”
It was around this period that Kinison’s rage, never completely repressed but now stoked by cocaine, began to explode. A pummeling of comic Mark Goldstein in front of Kinison’s stand-up alma mater, the Comedy Store, forced owner Mitzi Shore to give Kinison an ultimatum: “I told him I didn’t want him around until he cleaned himself up. He left and I didn’t see him again for two years.”
His girlfriend at the time, comedian Tamayo Otsuki (Davis Rules), found life with Kinison too rough to take. “As a person, Sam was a complete screwup,” says Otsuki. “He had a nice, soft side, like a 5-year old boy. But he was heavily into drugs. I left him about 60 times during the two years we saw each other. He’d call and leave 50 messages on my machine in one day. I finally had to disconnect my phone and move. I had to disappear because he’d come to my house and break in. He broke the window, the door, my chairs. His ego was hurt. He said, ‘How can you leave Elvis?’”
Malika Souiri, the Las Vegas dancer he started seeing after Otsuki and who he eventually married, describes her relationship with Kinison as “up and down like a roller coaster. I stood up to Sam lots of times, and I think he respected that.” Comedian Carl LaBove isn’t quite as delicate. “It was one of those drag-down, knock-down, fight-it-out relationships,” he says. “Sam took his punches too – she’s a kick-ass girl.”
Early in 1988, Kinison’s career began to lose momentum. In February, United Artists sued him for essentially walking out of what would have been his first starring film: Atuk, a piece of fluff about an Eskimo that goes to New York. Although the case was settled out of court, word went around that Kinison was unreliable and impossible to work with. The powerful Creative Artists Agency had already dropped him as a client. Then in May Kinison was dealt a ravaging personal blow. His brother Kevin, 28, the baby of the family, shot himself to death in his parents’ house in Tulsa after suffering a nervous breakdown. Kinison was devastated and began thinking about suicide himself. “Till the day he died,” says Bill Kinison, “Sam was still moved to tears when he talked about Kevin.”
The comic’s 1988 concert tour took in less than previous year’s, but that didn’t stop Kinison from playing the prodigal. He was paying off a house in Malibu and renting a four-bedroom apartment in Hollywood Hills. He spent lavishly on clothing, mostly from H. Lorenzo’s on Sunset Strip. He ate at Spago, Dan Tana’s, and the Palm and often left 100 percent of the bill as a tip. “He was very extravagant,” says comedian Richard Belzer. “Every meal was a celebration.” Although he dieted on and off, Kinison was a binger by nature. Descending on Ben Frank’s one night in 1988 with Hahn, his occasional date at the time, Kinison ordered sausages, bacon, eggs, buttermilk pancakes, and biscuits. “The grease made the Exxon oil spill look mild,” says Hahn. “And after eating all that, he said, ‘I feel good – want some dessert?’”
And there were drugs. Always drugs. Kinison’s booze and cocaine intake, never stinting, now began to rival his food consumption. In fact, a rider in his performance contract required promoters to provide an oxygen tank backstage. Its purpose: to revive him between shows. Comic Doug Bady remembers seeing Kinison “sucking on and oxygen mask before a show. I wondered how was he ever going to get out there. He looked like he was going to fall asleep or pass out. But he would undergo a transformation almost, and by the time he got on stage, he was right on.”
Avoiding unconsciousness was also a big challenge at home. “He hated to sleep,” says Hahn. “He’d practically have to pass out first.” One of Kinison’s domestic goals was to stay up till the early morning hours to watch reruns of his favorite childhood series, The Fugitive. Among his prized possessions was a pair of bar tabs signed by the show’s star, David Janssen.
By 1990, Kinison was an outlaw. The mere rumble of his name meant trouble. His album Leader of the Banned was selling poorly, and MTV dropped his video from its rotation. HBO backed out of a projected special. On tour, he was so high one night, according to guitarist Randy Hansen, “The audience began throwing things at him and chanting ‘Refund! Refund! Refund! He was barely able to stand up.”
Weirdness was everywhere. In June 1990, a 320-pound man, who had met Kinison hours before, allegedly attacked Souiri, who by this time was living with Sam, while the comic was passed out upstairs. She fired off four shots from one of Kinison’s many guns. The ensuing rape trial resulted in a hung jury and the case was dismissed, but the incident helped Souiri come to a definite conclusion about her life with Kinison.
“The party was over,” she says. “I felt it was good for us to stop everything and start to live life to its fullest.” The two made a pact to go straight, and Kinison joined an Alcoholics Anonymous chapter, where he befriended fellow member Ozzy Osbourne. In March 1990, Kinison began telling audiences he was no longer getting high.
The sad truth was that his new leaf stayed turned over for only a few months. After that, clean and sober was more of an image than a reality for Kinison. According to Randy Hansen, “Sam told me, ‘What’s important is that the audience believes I quit. Whether I’m doing drugs or not is none of their business. What I want them to know is that I don’t encourage anything…and that I try to be a role model.’ He wanted to get rid of that image of, ‘Yeah, let’s go get f–ed-up and party.’”
It’s said that even a fleeting exposure to the AA program can affect one’s life. So it was with Kinison. Though he was still drinking, his drug consumption went down, and he and Souiri slowly settled into a routine, non partying domestic life. The industry took notice. Kinison guest-starred on a Christmas episode of Fox’s Married…With Children in 1990, racking up the show’s highest ratings, and began negotiating for his own Fox series, Charlie Hoover.
But maintaining the new image wasn’t easy. In July 1991, Kinison missed an hour-long appearance on The Joan Rivers Show because he was too drunk to get our of New York City’s Plaza Hotel. Rivers admits she was furious but says, “Sam was devastated by it. He was upset because he thought he might lose his role in his series, which was to start in a few months. He really cared, for all the talk about his not giving a shit. He wanted the success. He was a pro and knew that a pro has to act in a certain manner.”
Charlie Hoover, a series of microscopic concept, featured Kinison as Tim Matheson’s 12-inch-high alter ego. Kinison didn’t put much stock in the show, but he showed up for work every day. And when it was canceled this February after a three-month run, Kinison had no regrets. He already has a few paths mapped out. On April 14, four days after he died, he was supposed to have signed with New Line Cinema, his first film contract since 1988; the two-movie deal called for a concert film and a comedy with either Arnold Schwarzenegger or Rick Moranis. That same day, Kinison was scheduled to sign with Fox for a variety show, a comedy hour patterned after the old Jackie Gleason Show, with Sandra Bernhard as his possible co star. This was going to be a good year.
Kinison was in a celebratory mood on April 5, when he married Souiri at the Candlelight Chapel in Las Vegas. They honeymooned for two days in Hawaii. “It was the most relaxed I’d ever sen him,” says Souiri. “This time, it seemed like it was really coming together.”
Two days later, Sam and Malika set off for his gig in Laughlin, with brother Bill and other friends following in a van. Bill saw the pickup truck heading directly toward Kinison’s car. With a steep embankment on his right, Sam had no room to maneuver. Both vehicles went straight up in the air on collision and crashed back down. Majid Khoury, Kinison’s personal assistant, who was in the van, found Sam “lying on his side diagonally across the seat, facing Malika, as if covering her at the time of impact. He was trying to get up and saying, ‘I don’t understand it. I don’t understand it. How come?’”
Then he lost consciousness and though CPR was attempted, Kinison lived only about three or four minutes after the accident. At the hospital, Souiri says, “I forced my way in to see Sam. I wanted to kiss him. But when I tried, blood came out of his mouth. I wanted something of him. I wanted anything on me – even his blood. It may sound sick, but I put some of his blood on my chest, over my heart.”
The death certificate states that Sam Kinison died of “multiple traumatic injuries.” The autopsy results, released May 27, showed signs of cocaine and prescription drugs in his system. The 17-year-old driver, who was allegedly drinking beer at the time of the accident, has been charged with vehicular manslaughter. A pretrial hearing was set for June 1.
In an interview last year, Kinison said that while his career was doing just fine, life was another story. “It seems to be one tragedy followed after another,” he said. “Just about the time you think life’s perfect, and you got it just the way you want it, something else comes up that breaks your heart, devastates you. And then you gotta get over that, and try to trust again, believe again, and set up for the next tragedy.”
Or, as he said on the highway between Needles and Barstow, “I don’t understand it.”
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Second-Chance Sam
By Joe Rhodes
Frequent Contributor To TV Times
Originally printed in The Los Angeles Times
Sunday, November 17, 1991Sam Kinison has been sent to his corner, away from the main set of the new Fox network sitcom “Charlie Hoover,” isolated from the rest of the cast and most of the crew.
Tim Matheson, Kinison’s co-star, is in the midst of an elaborate set, surrounded by extras and scenery: slot machines, miniskirted waitresses, crap tables, all the details necessary to evoke the ambience of an Atlantic City casino.
Kinison, in his trademark beret and long coat, is standing barely 30 feet away, but he might as well be in another world. His area, brightly lighted and painted entirely in blue, is roped off from the casino set and his only clear view of the other actors is via a monitor. Kinison looks strangely disembodied surrounded by all that blue, the lone resident of a monochromatic universe.
“Every time they say, ‘OK, time to change sets,’ I always start to move along with everybody else,” Kinison says, waiting patiently for his cue. “And then I realize, hey, I’m not going anywhere. They may be changing sets but I’m stuck right here in Blue World.”
Which, all in all, is not a bad metaphor for Kinison’s career. It’s been 10 years since he first roared into Los Angeles, the howling stand-up from hell. He has, for the last decade, been the comedy equivalent of a Scud missile, loud, messy and you could never be sure just exactly when he’d explode.
Kinison, a former road-show evangelist, and his act embodied his conversion to the wild side of life. Designed to provoke, it served him well. He was criticized for bashing women, bashing gays, bashing Christianity. And every criticism brought in more paying customers.
His personal life did nothing to soften his on-stage image. There were drugs, alcohol abuse, danger and debauchery on a grand scale. He hung out with the heavy-metal crowd, acting more like a rock star than a comedian.
“It was fun to be at the China Club and be up there jamming with Slash or Joe Walsh and John Entwistle (of The Who), and I’d be a liar to say I didn’t love it, that it wasn’t my high school dream, ’cause it was,” Kinison says. “But there comes a point where you say, I’ve done enough of this. I want to move on to something else.
“I mean it was great to be the rock comic, the shock comic. But after you’ve played Giants Stadium with Bon Jovi in front of 82,000 people, after you’ve done the “Wild Thing” video with Jessica Hahn and every rock band from hell, you’re not gonna top that. And I’m on the other side of 35 now, so it’s time.”
Which is why Kinison, who’s 37 to be exact, is standing on this blue stage, pursuing that most mainstream of comedy goals, a network sitcom. “I want to show people that there’s a side of myself other than just the outrageous comedian,” Kinison says. “I hope this shows that I can do family entertainment, that my comedy doesn’t just depend on vulgarity.”
In “Charlie Hoover,” Kinison plays Matheson’s 12-inch-tall alter ego, the inner voice who’s always urging him, as Kinison explains “to not go to work, to call that girl, to run away. I’m his pleasure center.”
Kinison’s scenes are shot with a special-effects camera that allows his 12-inch image, shot against the blue background, to be inserted, live, into the master shots. Kinison and Matheson rehearse face to face and then, when its time to shoot, return to their respective sets, able to see each other only through occasional glances at the monitors.
“It really doesn’t feel that difficult to me because I’m used to performing by myself when I do stand-up,” Kinison says. “But (the producers) seem to think it’s really hard. Don’t tell ’em. Let ’em think I’m bustin’ my ass.”
Kinison seems genuinely grateful that Fox took a chance on him, considering his longstanding reputation as a less than reliable performer. “I think a lot of ’em were wondering if I was up to it and I was kind of wondering myself. It was like, ‘Gee, I hope I haven’t bitten off more than I can chew here.’”
But instead of hating the long hours and the morning calls, Kinison has found himself invigorated by having a steady job. “I kind of needed this, I think,” he says. “I needed something to turn the nights back into the days.”
Image considerations aside, Kinison was getting plenty of clues that he needed to slow down. He was forced into rehab programs to deal with his substance abuse problems. His younger brother, Kevin, committed suicide in 1988; last summer his girlfriend was raped by his bodyguard while Kinison, allegedly passed out drunk, slept in the other room.
“Yeah, those were pretty sobering experiences,” Kinison said, quietly, his demeanor as far from his raging stage persona as it could be. “Those are things that can either destroy you or, if you survive them, make you stronger. Those are hard things for anyone to get through, especially people with the title of comedian.
“I’m just glad I made the transition from when I could have overdosed or when I could have fallen asleep at the wheel and run off a cliff or something. It’s good to have survived those years.
“I don’t hear anything screaming in here any more,” Kinison says, pointing to his heart. “I’m just happy to be here. I’m just happy to have the chance.”
“Charlie Hoover” airs Saturdays at 9 p.m. on Fox.
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The Man Who Would Be King of Metal
By Patrick Goldstein
Originally printed in The Los Angeles Times
Sunday, March 18, 1990Could Sam Kinison be rock’s new head-banger hero?
The heavy-metal comic, who boasts “I can play guitar at least as well as (Guns N Roses guitarist) Slash, is hoping to cross-over from comedy to rock audiences with his new album, “Leader of the Banned.” Due March 27 from Warner Bros. Records, “Banned” features an entire side of thundering metal, including new versions of AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell,” Mountain’s “Mississippi Queen,” Cheap Trick’s “Gonna Raise Hell” and the Rolling Stone’s “Under My Thumb,” which will be the first single.
Now touring the Midwest with his comedy show, Kinison says he’s trying to put together an all-star band “who could go out with me and maybe even open for Motley Crue on their tour.” The Crue, who have cleaned up their act, would be a perfect match for Kinison, who says he has “cut out the booze” and is attending AA meetings.
It’s hard to say whether he’s more proud of his sobriety or his new album, which features such hotshots as Poison’s CC De Ville, Guns N Roses’ Slash, Bon Jovi keyboardist David Bryam, Whitesnake bassist Rudy Sarzo, Dweezil Zappa and rock vet Leslie West.
“Listen, I’ve been playing guitar since I was 15,” Kinison said. “I’m not intimidated by these guys. I may not be as good as CC De Ville, but it’s not like I’m William Shatner doing ‘Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.’”
But is rock radio ready for Kinison? “I haven’t heard the record yet, but if the songs are good, we’ll play ’em,” said KLOS-FM program director Carey Curelop. “He certainly won’t be penalized because he’s a comedian. Eddie Murphy had a big hit–he wasn’t treated like a novelty artist. So if Sam’s serious about making a good rock record, we’ll treat him seriously.”
Kinison said his video for “Under My Thumb” is set in a courtroom, with a tentative cast featuring Ozzy Osbourne as the judge, Paul Williams as Kinison’s attorney, “Married With Children’s” Dave Faustino as a defendant and a jury of 12 sexy dancers. “We have a bit where I put on these special X-ray glasses so I can look at the girls and see their lingerie,” Kinison explained. “We only cast dancers who were born after the Kennedy assassination. We tried to come up with everything that would shock MTV.”
When it comes to shock, Kinison is a master (though he’s covered his bets with the video channel by having Dweezil appear in his clip playing a guitar in the shape of MTV’s logo). His last album was so incendiary that Warners put two warning stickers on the jacket–and inserted an AIDS awareness pamphlet because gay activists were so outraged by Kinison’s jokes about AIDS. This time around “Banned” is “being treated like a regular release,” said Warners publicity chief, Bob Merlis. “There’s no firestorm of controversy that I’ve heard of.”
In fact, Warners let Kinison design his own warning sticker, which will read: “Pan Am 103: The Truth Must Be Known. Explicit Language and Material: Parental Advisory.”
Kinison says Warners only added its warning stickers and AIDS pamphlet to his previous album under pressure. “I feel I really got singled out last time,” he complained. “They put so many stickers on my last album that you couldn’t even see my (expletive) face! Comedy isn’t a pack of cigarettes. It doesn’t need a surgeon general’s report on it. I always get blamed for being a (jerk). But play Andrew Dice Clay’s record and tell me who the gay-basher is.”
With arch-rival Clay now performing rock music in his concert act too, relations between the two contenders for the title of King of the Metal Comics have soured considerably.
“We get along about as well as Poison and Warrant,” said Kinison, referring to a pair of feuding rock bands. “Dice is the Morton Downey Jr. of comedy–his career is gonna burn up like Larry Storch. I think he saw me do my act and said, ‘Duh, I’ll put on the leather jacket and insult everybody,’ as if no one would notice he was ripping off my (expletive) jokes! Now he’s even closing his shows with an all-star jam, except no all-stars ever show up!
“When he reads I might do four or five songs with a rock band, he’ll probably do it too. I’m surprised I haven’t seen him come out wearing a long coat and a beret already.”
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Press Release: Have You Seen Me Lately?
October 1988
A comedy explosion has swept across America in the ’80s, and in 1985, its most potent weapon was introduced to the public, Sam Kinison. From the minute he blasts onto the stage, Kinison, an ex-preacher, takes his audiences over the edge with his powerful approach which pushes comedy to its darkest, and often loudest, limits.
Kinison’s meteoric rise to the top has brought him fans of all types, ranging from the wild heavy-metal set to the John Does of America, and he has been applauded with an equal fervor from the critics. With a non-stop work schedule that includes films, concert, records and television specials, there is no doubt that Kinison’s controversial topics and behavior will continue ruffling feathers well into the ’90s. It’s in his blood.
His October ’88 album release on Warner Bros. Records, Have You Seen Me Lately?, is filled with Kinison’s trademark hard-hitting monologues. Kinison’s approach is outrageous, challenging, and hysterically funny, and it finds him jumping headlong into monologues about taboos, preacher scam artists, the Pope, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. With titles such as, “Robo-Pope,” “The Story of Jim (Bakker),” “Jesus The Miracle Caterer,” “Lesbians Are Our Friends,” “Pocket Toys,” “Parties With The Dead,” and “Sexual Diaries,” Kinison leaves no stone unturned.
The LP also finds Kinison embarking on his adventurous singing debut on the revised remake of the Troggs classic, “Wild Thing.” After bringing the crowd to it’s feet with an impromptu performance of the song at his sold-out show at the Universal Amphitheater in Los Angeles last July, Kinison decided to record the song and include it on his album. No surprisingly, Kinison has revamped the lyrics as only he can: “Wild thing, you made me trust you then stuck a knife in my heart. You lying, unfaithful, untrustable tramp…”
Kinison didn’t have to look very far for help in recording the song. Joining Kinison for this raunchy rendition were some of his biggest fans, including such notable rockers as members of Whitesnake, Poison, and Motley Crue. The recording, which was produced by Richie Zito, known for his studio work on Cheap Trick and Eddie Money, is accompanied by a video that turns the temperature up even more with its “who’s who” of rock ‘n rollers.
The video version, described by Kinison as “everything I always wanted to be in high school,” was directed by the acclaimed Marty Callner, and teams Kinison with his rocker pals, which includes none other than Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora of Bon Jovi, Poison’s C.C. DeVille, Billy Idol, Rudy Sarzo of Whitesnake, Steven Tyler and Joe Perry of Aerosmith, Tommy Lee from Motley Crue, Slash and Steven Adler from Guns N Roses, various members of Ratt, and John Waite and Jonathan Cain. It also features the notorious Jessica Hahn as the ‘Wild Thing,’ and a special appearance by Rodney Dangerfield.
Logging over 250 concert appearances every year has helped Kinison achieve across-the-board success, and his popularity knows no geographical or cultural boundaries. Following his initial appearance on Rodney Dangerfield’s 1985 HBO Special, Rodney Dangerfield presents the Young Comedians, which Kinison filled with what he terms, “the six minutes that changed my life,” Sam’s career moved into high gear. He followed up with four appearances on Late Night With David Letterman and five guest shots on Saturday Night Live, culmination in a sixth appearance as the show’s host in November of 1986. Longtime friend and mentor Rodney Dangerfield asked Sam back for his 1986 HBO special, I Don’t Get No Respect and for a memorable part of Rodney’s crazed history professor in Back To School.
Kinison then starred in his very own HBO Special, Breaking The Rules, and his debut comedy album, Louder Than Hell, went on to sell over 200,000 copies, making it one of the biggest selling comedy albums of all time.
Currently looking to develop a feature film which would combine his two greatest loves, comedy and rock ‘n roll, Kinison is sure to continue his attack on the American psyche, while Have You Seen Me Lately? challenges his audience to follow him to even deeper depths. The question is, just how deep can he go?
